Sour Times in Turkey

This post has been updated TWICE. Update 2: A CNN article sums it up (click here).

Internet in Turkey April 12, 1993 - August 22, 2011. "From now on no one may enter." (Image from Radikal)

The censorship frenzy in Turkey has reached jaw-dropping proportions, between prosecutions of writers and journalists and wholesale banning of websites. The latest victim is ( whose host has just received an order to close it down. Sourtimes is a kind of Turkish-language Wicked-pedia, a collaborative dictionary where users add information, but where the main goal is not unvarnished truth, but rather insight based on obscure detail and hilarious send-offs. I use Sourtimes to look up people, about whom the site has all kinds of interesting details contributed by users (here’s the entry on Jenny White). It is a useful resource and at the same time hilarious and infuriating, and sometimes scathing social satire. I suppose it was only a matter of time until the censors, who appear to have no sense of humor as well as no conscience, turned their ax to it.

This is not, however, a soft target. It is an enormously popular website with a large net worth. According to webinformation the 12-year-old sourtimes site is ranked 26th in Turkey with 192,000 daily visitors from several countries. (Worldwide rank 1,479) Half of its users are from Istanbul. Each of the estimated 5,739,480 monthly users views an average of 3 pages per session. The website’s value is estimated at $18 million.

The recent bans have not even had the fig leaf of a court decision, but have come in the form of notices (sometimes emailed) from the government’s Internet Office (TİB, İnternet Daire Başkanlığı) to the hosting companies, ordering them to close down the specified sites (or sites with certain words in their domain names, see my post below) and threatening unspecified punishment if they don’t comply. Is this even legal? Closing down an $18 million company without a court order, just by the flick of a pen or a pixel?

It seems the TIB has rethought its Sourtimes ban, but not rescinded it. They sent another note saying, in effect, “We’ll let you know.” (click here, in Turkish)

Under a decision on “Rules and Procedures of the Safety of Internet Use,” approved by the Prime Ministry’s Information Technologies Board (BTK) in February, Internet users in Turkey will have to choose one of four content-filtering Internet packages: family, children, domestic or standard. The list of websites filtered by each package will be decided by the BTK but will not be made public. The change will be implemented starting Aug. 22. (click here)

Access to thousands of websites is banned in Turkey, based on the Internet Ban Law No. 5651. Reporters without Borders put Turkey in the category of “countries under surveillance” in its latest report on “Internet Enemies.”

TV and radio are also being hyper-regulated, with a recently passed broadcasting law giving the prime minister the authority to temporarily halt broadcasting. It bans “racy” images from the screen and gives the government’s Radio and Television Supreme Council (RTÜK) the right to define the professional and ethical rules that employees must follow. (Long skirts? No kissing?) The new law allows up to 50 percent of a company’s shares to be owned by a foreign company. (click here)

In the 1980s, right after the de facto deregulation of the media (the good old days when the government could no longer control all the new technology: cable, satellite etc) there was a famous skit shown on Turkish television that showed the Turkish army trying to carry out a coup, racing from one radio/TV station to another, but unable to close them all down. If you can’t close down the media, you can’t take over. But now the off-switch is back, only in the hands of the prime minister. How did that happen? It seems the government still doesn’t understand the technology, yet has managed to cow the industry with threats. Someone should write a dissertation on this. Here are the variables: army, state, elected government (aka AKP), technology, judicial system, media. Am I missing anything? Opposition?  (Well, there’s the CHP and some demonstrations) Any legal or technological resistance?

60 Responses to “Sour Times in Turkey”

  1. Perhaps this will be another case of ‘sehven’ to be pronounced by people who ought not have had any power over us to start with. TIB reverses itself again:
    Now, on something completely unrelated. This is something that has no bearing whatsoever on our esteemed and respected intellectuals, pundits and politicians who gave tacit or active support to all this. Here’s an interesting ‘who’s who’ kind of book:


  3. More hilarity:
    (see here if you didn’t get it)

  4. Am I missing anything?
    Yes, the intelligentsia and the existing press among others. The Dogan group did their best to lay the groundwork for the original 2007 law[1] (I believe this is called creating a ‘moral panic’). Every week or so they’d have a child porn story and would implicate the internet. Add to this the usual lying intellectuals and pundits who tell people that ‘in the West’ such things are very strictly controlled (in whatever manner that suits them at the time, doesn’t need to reflect the reality in the West). Remember it took me two or three tries to get even you [Jenny] to look up how things were with the first amendment in your own country wrt. secularism and it isn’t just the AKP-connected pundits who do this kind of systematic and consistent lying. If Acracia is still here, he may remember me exposing someone else’s fibs about freedom of expression elsewhere. This is very common and is far far more harmful than any open/naked application of power (as in martial law etc.).
    [1] See this for example where they basically handed their paper over to the police:

  5. SSG on CNN:

  6. These, my friends, are the footsteps, the birth pangs of a fledgling “advanced democracy” that is Turkey.

  7. Won’t somebody please think of the children!

  8. ==>24 likes, 402 dislikes <===

  9. Here is the transcription of the video link I gave above
    [..]“…..günümüzde bu bilgisayar oyunları filan, o internet kafeler filan oralarda olan şeyler, o mevzununda böyle bağlayıcı kanunu kuralı yok ve insanlarda tahdit koyamıyorlar o mevzuda.
    belli anahtarlarla sadece girilmesi gerekli olan yerlere girme gibi bir tahdit getiremiyorlar.
    çok ciddi problemler oluşuyor. bağışlayın gayri meşru çentleşmelerden(?) alın da bu mevzuda fuhşiyata münkerata gitmeye kadar…”[..]
    (Münker. C.) Haram işler. Şeriatın menettiği, Allah’ın yasak kıldığı şeyler.
    [Blasphemous deeds. Acts that are banned by relious laws and/or God.]

  10. Don’t you see what this is for what it is? The Ergenekon Terrorist Organization has a man inside the TIB and has timed this to make it look like Fethullah Gulen inspired the ban.

    Wicked-pedia. Nice turn of phrase, Miss Crime Novelist. (P.S. You gave the wrong link to your Eksi entry.)

  11. OK. Fixed it. Thanks.

  12. Jenny, it’s still not working. here is the correct one :)

  13. OK, I think that did it. Thanks.

  14. OK, I searched Zaman to see if they got started with what Emre implied above and found the following gem:
    I quote:
    Zaman’a konuşan Telekomünikasyon İletişim Başkanı (TİB) Fethi Şimşek de Acarer gibi mevcut kullanılan interneti hiçbir biçimde engellemenin söz konusu olmayacağını vurguluyor. Şimşek yeni uygulamayı eleştirenlere, “Amerika, İngiltere, Almanya ve Avusturya’da da yıllardır var.”
    This implies that there is a Federal Bureau in the US that prepares lists and imposes filter packages on people. Does it not? So, Jenny, Nihat and Emre which package are you using? Of course it cannot possibly be the case that this guy is saying things that are patently false and Zaman is printing them unchallenged. No, of course not. That I would entertain such thoughts for even brief a moment shows what kind of a warped mind I have about the gov’t in general.

  15. Bulent, speaking for myself, I am using the package that doesn’t exist, a.k.a. the unrestricted package! Here the debate for the most part is about the possibility of ISPs’ favoring some traffic over others, giving the former priority in order to maximize their own profits. The objectors (liberals, I think) are trying to get the government to regulate ISPs so they won’t do such stuff.

  16. That’s just an ordinary lie. I’m waiting for it to be associated with the Ergenekon Terrorist Organization. Surely there must be some secret evidence … with an original signature, etc.

  17. Oh this is why Eksi Sozluk is handy. Here’s an entry about this particular great bureaucrat and his official travel:
    It appears the Saudi Telecom Company they talked with had bought some shares in Saudi Oger in ’08. Saudi Oger, of course, proudly displays familiar brand names in their web site. It is good to see our regulators keep in touch with and be in friendly terms with foreign owners of local monopolies. I am sure they are as truthful in their speech when they talk to rich Saudis behind closed doors as they are when they are talking to the public here. Yes, I do.

  18. Nihat, thanks (it was rhetorical question!). Yes, the network neutrality thing is very interesting. (Though not a problem here. We have ‘liberals’ and even ‘laissez-faire’ people who’ll happily convince people whatever the powers that be decide to do is the right and the best thing to do. Gov’t backed Telco monopoly goes into content business? No problem, you can find ‘respected’ assholes to defend that, for example. Regulatory capture? That is a very good thing. Theft? Oh that happens everywhere, don’t pay attention.)
    Guys, I haven’t been back here and away from the US long enough to believe the nonsense some people here spread about that country. What I am curious about is why people feel they need to do that and the ease with which they get away with it. If this guy had said ‘this is the way we will do it in this country for such and so reasons’ he’d be telling the truth and unless people were willing to claim that they wanted to live under the US law (which is what ‘unrestricted’ Internet really is, you can check that by breaking the US law and seeing what happens — google Dmitry Sklyarov for example) it would have been an OK thing to say.

  19. Here here (click):

    Serhat Özeren (İnternet Kurulu Başkanı): “Asıl sorun devletin bu yasaları kamuoyuna açıklama şekli. Duyuru şeklinde açıklanınca kaos oluşuyor. Biz basitçe ‘Ali gel’ diyoruz, devlet onu tüzüklerle yasalarla anlatırken, basitlik ve anlam bozuluyor, farklı anlamlar çıkabiliyor. Filtre sistemi AB dahil birçok ülkede uygulanıyor. Fakat AB’de yasaklı bir sitede bizim gibi yasaklıdır diye yazı çıkmıyor hata kodu veriyor. Bu üslup farklılığı da birçok sorunu çözebiliyor. İran ve Çin’de uygulanan yasakları tabii ki tasvip etmiyorum. Fakat çocuk pornosu BM nezdindeki en büyük suçlardan biri konumunda ve bizim de bununla mücadele etmemiz gerekir.”
    (emphasis mine)

    Quick translation: Filtering systems are in use in many countries including EU countries. However, in EU countries, you don’t see a ‘this site is banned’ page when you try to access a banned site; an error occurs instead. This simple difference in manners solves a lot of problems.
    Now, I read this as follows: This simple difference in manners avoids a lot of complaints because a nondescript error won’t wake surfers up to what actually is happening.
    Am I right?

  20. Nihat, I wouldn’t take these people’s word for anything. I don’t know where in EU people do what about ‘net censorship and this bunch isn’t where I’d turn to to find out (what’s next? We believe what we read in Zaman?). He’s still saying kiddie porn BTW — these people are shameless in their use of manipulative rhetoric. This is par for the course in a country where the members of the academic establishment are made to bow before a third rate conspiracy theorist, of course. (On that: see this rumor.)

  21. Bulent, I of course am not looking to these guys’ words to discover a factual truth about the world. What struck me was his unabashed bureaucratic thinking manifested by his expressed yearning to stealth methods of banning sites. I was asking if I was justified in that interpretation of what he said.
    Your ‘see this rumor’ link is defunct.

  22. Nihat, yes, I think you are right about their thinking. It reminded me of old-style censorship of newspapers where they’d just blank out headlines and columns causing the reader to realize the government didn’t want something to appear. (I couldn’t find an online example, but I remember seeing some and they looked very bad.)
    The link that didn’t appear was this:

  23. Here’s MFG (long) talking about the Internet posted two years ago:
    This is a standard theme actually: a centralized authority decides what is ‘good and useful’ and bans the rest. This is not limited to Gulen.

  24. “a centralized authority decides what is ‘good and useful’ and bans the rest”
    And they don’t need clear-cut reasons or evidence for doing that. But, they sometimes, conjecturally need grounds to stand on. That’s how Turks have been and are being done in.

  25. Also, these centralized authorities have a problem with numbers: they can’t count!
    From here (click)
    According the authority, before cooking up the last regulation, they talked to other countries, and found that Australia tried a 110-billion-dollar filtering system which failed. So they opted for this tiered package system, and Australia is gonna follow their lead, too.
    Ehm, what? 110 billion dollars? How many Kanal Istanbuls can be cut with that money?
    Also according to the authority, there are about 9.5 million Internet subscription accounts and 40 million users in Turkey. So, when asked about fears that standard package users will be suspects by default and will be tracked, he goes: (with a tone pleading technical incapability) how can they track so many people? It probably hasn’t occurred to them to ask Google yet. Oh well…

  26. This is a standard theme actually: a centralized authority decides what is ‘good and useful’ and bans the rest. This is not limited to Gulen

    There is a word for that: paternalism. People have to learn not to look for father figures and start acting like responsible adults.

    How many Kanal Istanbuls can be cut with that money?

    Not (m)any. I bet the canal project, if realized, will end up costing closer to 110 billion than 10 billion.

  27. I never experienced an ‘error’ in one of the many European countries my wife or I visited. There is a certain ‘control’ of internet but with different purposes: to catch child porn users and terrorists. There is no censor ship in the EU but protecting citizens against unlawful acts by their governments!
    Btw, did yesterday a ‘check’ in Panama (nice all those skycrapers were Erdogan gets wet of, but no way that that will be possible in Istanbul) and today in Columbia and no internet censorship.
    Its pure the Muslim countries, China, Cuba and N. Korea.
    Turkey is heading a financial crisis within one year according two int. economists we spoke with in Miami (my wife was there for business gathering) There is overheating and there are the wrong governmental signals. Take your pick.

  28. Emre,
    There is a word for that: paternalism. People have to learn not to look for father figures and start acting like responsible adults.
    Actually MFG is complaining that the ‘net enables them to access ‘useless’ stuff and do harmful things and talk to inappropriate people (apparently people in his flock have hooked up with others on the ‘net and got divorced — obviously the ‘net is to blame and not the cemaat-arranged marriages). He wants some order, it isn’t that people in general are asking him to get this done. That’s what I got. This is common, it also comes in ‘take good things from the West but not their immorality’ form or even in ‘don’t be Communists, if this country needs Communism, we will bring it’ etc.
    Btw, from here:
    İsteyenlerin bu tür içerikli sitelere girebileceğini ancak istenmediği halde bu sitelerin ekrana gelmesinin hoş olmadığına dikkat çeken Acarer, “Ben tarihle ilgili bir siteye girdiğimde, örneğin Emeviler devrine bakmak istediğimde karşıma porno sitesi çıkıyor. Buna ben bakabiliyorsam, çocuğum da bakabilir” diye konuştu.
    I tried searching and the ‘net did not do this for me. Has anyone managed to reproduce this? (He says he gets porn when he looks for info about the Umayyad Caliphate). Which search engine is this guy using? It isn’t that easy for porn to pop up, the search engines usually push those click collecting sites down in rankings. Did someone set up a legit-looking ‘Islamic’ site to do this to people, I wonder?

  29. BM,
    I am sure you have read the question put to him. Here it is, for the rest of us.

    İnternet bağımlılığı bir hastalık olarak dünya literatürüne girdi. İnternet üzerinden oynanan oyunlar çocuklarımızı da çok etkiliyor. Bu problemin çocuk sağlığına etkilerini ve aile ortamına yaptığı olumsuz tesirleri engellemek için başta aile olmak üzere eğitimci ve din görevlilerine ne gibi vazifeler düşmektedir?

    I am not going to claim it to be a genuine one; it could be an imaginary (made up) question.
    But, never mind the part where he is asked to address the educators and the clergy, it is a legitimate one.
    One that we should not take the selfish stance and shrug off as “not my problem”, or chose to look down upon those who have those concerns but are unable to find a solution.
    We have for too long assumed that the average computer user is an adult reasonably well versed with techonolgy –enough that s/he seek and find the means to protect her/himself from the dangers of Internet.
    Well.. that assumption isn’t valid anymore.
    Microsoft, for example, has realized part of the problem and are distributing an unusually/unexpectedly powerful/useful software called ‘Microsoft Security Essentials’ to protect the computer against viruses, trojans and worms. [Let's not go into a "well, their OS needs that" kind of discussion. It isn't relevant to what I'm trying to point out here.]
    It is a partial solution, though. Because, it only protects the user against binary/executable threats.
    What we need is something different: Protecting the under-age users from certain visual/audio contents.
    And, this has to be active above the user level –as part of the OS, so that users cannot remove or bypass it.
    And, no, I am not suggesting that MS should be the one that decides what content should the kid must be prevented from seeing. It should be some other body –something the parents choose –as centralized database but locally fine-tunable by individual parent.
    But, the functionality has to be there and it should be immutable for those users that does not possess the credentials –i.e. kids.
    Now.. this is the part where I get mad/frustrated at the software world: They are still stuck with “the average computer user is an adult reasonably well versed with techonolgy able to install software to protect him/herself” assumption; and they raise hell on hearing that there should be an inbuilt censorship functionality in the OS.
    They/we are wrong.
    And, the longer we/they deny the parents this, the more it is likely to be implemented by governments as a centralized one-size-fits-all behemoth.
    So.. all these heated discussions (whether we should let governments shut down sites and control the Internet) stem, IMO, from our fault: We have not made any effort to solve it at the user (or computer) level where it would be most effectively handled.
    As engineers and technologists, it is primarily our responsibility to rise up to the challenge and solve the problem at its root –instead of passing it on to bureaucrats and worried parents.
    Or, would this also be considered too paternalistic?

  30. “Not (m)any. I bet the canal project, if realized, will end up costing closer to 110 billion than 10 billion.”
    Yeah, that’s what I am saying. There are lies in there somewhere.

  31. Emre, you know that the democratic advances of the last decade or so have come about thanks to incessant beating down of what was affectionately called Jacobin paternalism, don’t you? If you do, why the heck do you speak plainly when doing irony? (Go stand in the corner, facing the wall, on one leg!)

  32. Bulent, I don’t think he was talking about search engines necessarily. I found, at my work place, that I wasn’t able to reach some Turkish sites (mostly news aggregation sites). And the reason was, they had adult content according to the police software, which they didn’t. But they probably had links to stuff (in dynamic ads, or some such).
    Emre, this is for you: :) I forgot to drop it in my previous comment.

  33. BM,

    Did someone set up a legit-looking ‘Islamic’ site to do this to people, I wonder?

    Would this count?

  34. CA,
    I link, with giggles, to the Catholics Online site about ‘inbuilt censorship functionality in the OS’:

  35. BM,

    I link, with giggles, to the Catholics Online site about ‘inbuilt censorship functionality in the OS’

    Just goes to show how removed from reality you geeks are.
    I bet that, if there was a referendum on banning certain sites (arbitrarily and arbitrarily large numbers of them), it would win by a landslide.
    IOW, you guys are playing a Russian Roulette with the threshold of societal patience.
    Once that’s breached, you will all be responsible for the demise of storage industry [here] to name but one.

  36. If I may, I would like to add something here that I find of great importance and which I recently discussed with a friend:
    As we had discussed numerous times with BM before, the recent past is in the process of being rewritten, turning “Ergenekon” into the gigantic culprit of every single thing that went wrong in Turkey’s recent past and present. This is very dangerous, because it is an attempt to not only alter knowledge and points of references but also a direct act to alter facts. Consider Madimak, for example. It is also an act of erasing differences and nuances that dangerously creates monolithic interpretations of the facts, without considering the actual complexity behind every event. Zaman, and unfortunately also Taraf, etc have all championed in this. I am not saying there aren’t decent people in these institutions, but I am talking about their publishing line/policy that informs their attitudes in press.
    This said, I don’t believe Eksi Sozluk was simply a target because of what the BTK claimed as “our employees google the word porn and then proceed to ban what comes up”–this is also something that is being mentioned in the link BM provided above: how come a text-based site be accused of porn industry/dissemination?
    A question that comes to my mind in the light of all these is this: Eksi Sozluk is an archive of knowledge, recent past, and actually shows different interpretations and viewpoints on a very large number of subjects. It is almost a mirror of how no event is one-sided, and shows dissidence, dissent, and multiple takes on each issue. Thus it is a valuable archive and unlike the government policies that seem to disfavor it, it is also site where one encounters plurality. Everyone is criticized openly there; depending on the author’s point of view, the target of criticism changes. But precisely because of that, it contains plurality.
    So: Could either of these be a reason why Eksi Sozluk became a target? Something to think about.

  37. CA, you do realize you are sounding like Elo, right? If they held a referendum on banning you from the ‘net you know how that would come out too — does that make you refrain from trolling pious and practicing Muslims?
    Yes, we know that all these high-speed links and even good fast and cheap hardware we owe to porn-watching, Windows-buying, Word-using, lol cat seeking, gore game playing, horny and chatty general public. That Seagate guy is right. I am sorry if this offends people who take relationship advice from elderly virgins but the truth is the truth.

  38. I think the reality is that the people who would vote in favor of such a referendum are disconnected from history, and morality. If storage devices ought to be banned because they can be used to store porn, you would have to ban magazines and books too. Sorry but I will show no mercy towards such ludicrous arguments. They deserve a good pillorying.

  39. That’s the thing about liberal democracy though: some things are not up for referenda! I mostly find the 2nd amendment proponents here in the US to be unreasonable extremist freaks, but I have to admit they have a point. Rather, they serve an important purpose. If it were not for dogged political undercurrents like theirs, most of the rest willing to extend their hands would end up losing their arms to popular yet even more freakish currents.

  40. Important/good point, Acracia. Whether or not the reason is as you speculate it to be, the result of the bad guys’ winning here shall be the same. So there is more to the value of sozluk in particular and of the continuity, plus advancement, of freedom of speech in general than meets the eye. My eye at least. Thanks for one of the more enriching comments I’ve read on the ‘net. You are up there with BM in my eye now.

  41. Nihat,
    Thank you for your comments and pointing at something that occurred to me after I read your post. So, based on that
    I would like to clarify something: you’re right, this is speculation. I cannot know. What I do know is that plurality is not the strong suit of our government. And when you come to think of it, which government truly favored it anyway? None, really. This is nothing peculiar to AKP, as it was the same with almost every elected government in Turkey. The difference is this: none of the previous governments tried to sell themselves with “advanced democracy” and none of them received the same kind of support from the “liberals.” This is quite disturbing as it is an insult against our intelligence.
    What I meant was not the direct tie to Ergenekon (so that they can manipulate facts easier) in the attempt to ban Eksi Sozluk. I used those examples (Madimak, Ergenekon, etc) not to create a direct cause and effect relationship (with Eksi Sozluk’s attempted ban), but rather exemplify a general attitude towards engaging an event, a person’s/group’s actions
    in a rather simplistic and “black and white” manner. And because of this, I thought, Eksi Sozluk might have become a target because it attests different interpretations of facts and people. Or it could be because it is an overt site to criticize people.
    I reread my comment, and I wouldn’t want it to come across as a conspiracy theory, because that was not my intention.

  42. Here (click) is an interview with Yaman Akdeniz of Bilgi Univiversity on the ban addiction problem.

  43. It turns out out there’s a ‘Nü Sözlük’ too. How do I know? Their provider got told to shut it down. Here is the relevant entry from the site itself (no nudity that I can see, don’t worry):

  44. I like the animated logo here:

  45. This is so ridiculous. Are they trying to be funny or something?

  46. Nihat, they may be trying to provoke the clown in everyone:
    Something wicked this way comes, but maybe if we laugh at it will be destroyed?

  47. But they have no sense of humor themselves:

  48. Once again, this may not be true but that it sounds plausible is revealing about the climate: Başbakan’a hakaret ettin gözaltısı.

  49. We know of one site that’ll be in some filter list or other.

  50. …and possibly another:

  51. Emre he seems to have lost some more restraint. Apparently he got crowds booing the Alevis at some place. If the May 15th demonstrations manage to gather crowds, we may also hear a variant of his idea of fielding his own mobs against demonstrating crowds.

  52. Bulent, reconsider linking to sozluk entries. According to an advisor to the president, sozluk is the gathering place of sweet-water fascists. More here (click).

  53. Nihat maybe just this once:

  54. I wouldn’t host any site inside Turkey at this point; Turkey is under siege. I wonder if there are any discreet ways of using satellite Internet to access depraved sites like Facebook, Twitter, and EksiSozluk etc.? Taraf should publish a “secret guide” to evading the Great Firewall hehehe

  55. By the way, isn’t the sweet-water something generally used when something is understood to be especially good? I mean, based on the fact that we are surrounded by seas, and generally look down upon fish from lakes, rivers, or farms? Imho, fascist has to be a good thing to begin with, for us to start complaining about the sweet-water variety… Oh well…

  56. Emre, you’re itching for a lesson. Stop looking for ways to thwart.

  57. Oh here, list from a different era from the sweet-water whatever:
    BTW, shouldn’t ‘tatli su’ be ‘freshwater’ as opposed to ‘saltwater’?

  58. Yeah, sure, freshwater it is. My bad…

  59. This video is for all your Nazi aficionados: 15 Mayıs’ta “İnternetime Dokunma!” The sound is a bit exaggerated but Tayyip’s speech more than redeems it. Perhaps they read this blog?!

    Here is another one: Bu Modem İnternete Girmeyecekse Size mi Girecek

  60. Emre, thank you. That re-dubbed scene from the Newtork is funny. Even inci/dedeler is there. The dubbing actor sounds familiar, did they get a professional to do this?
    Here’s more for the PM to call ‘ahlaksiz’ if the gets annoyed at the crowds tomorrow:
    There’s a lot of fun stuff out there and some real talent is evident too. I wonder if anyone is archiving any of the work (other than our masters that is).

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